Interview The Man Behind The Cartier Renaissance

The loquacious 62-year-old Cartier CEO is never without an opinion to share or a philosophy to unpack – "he has a lot of words," one brand insider told me before we met – and this year, especially, he has plenty to talk about.

His company is surging, having just released more than 60 novelties as part of the show. (By comparison, fellow Richemont brand A. Lange & Söhne released exactly one.) Vintage Cartier prices remain bananas. And reissues of coveted pieces like the Pebble cause collector feeding frenzies.

Last year, when the news broke that Cartier had become the world's second-biggest watchmaker behind Rolex, some skeptics didn't believe it (especially given how opaque the watch industry's data reporting can be). But Vigneron, a French national who has been at the helm since 2016, sweeps aside any doubt. He actually sees potential for even more growth. A lot more.

All of this comes at a time when the U.S. division is undergoing a leadership change, with Mercedes Abramo  moving to Cartier International and Walter Bolognino coming over from Bulgari to take the top American job. Still, in the end, they all ladder up to Vigneron – and so do roughly 10,000 other employees worldwide.

Ben Clymer and I sat down with one of the most powerful figures in luxury for a wide-ranging conversation about all of the above.

Nick Marino: You unveiled 60-plus pieces this year, which is a ton – many more than your peers or competitors. How do you set the parameters for a collection like this?

Cyrille Vigneron: We have defined three big territories. One are the iconic shapes, where we have gone through all the history of those that sell in quite large numbers. We revisit the models one by one and we take them back from the past, or from their short period of time in the present, and we try to redefine what can be the right shape now. In the past 10 to 15 years, Ballon Bleu was the last one which came to that kind of volume. Everything after that didn't have the same appeal.

Ben Clymer: Like the Golf Pasha?

CV: It was too big. And the Miss Pasha was too small. The proportions were not right. And some other models like, I don't know, the Drive or Clé or Calibre or Captive or Divan – many, many, many – today don't feel as right as the other ones. So, let them stay where they are. Maybe someday they will come as vintage and there can be a strong attraction.

So, from that base of shaped watches, we develop a collection around them while trying not to have too many models. We already have steel, and steel and diamond, sometimes steel and gold, some different in size, some different in movement.

Then the Privé is another element of even more specific shapes from 1905 forward to the London period of the 1970s, where we have the Crash and the Tank Cintrée and the others we have relaunched, like the Tank Asymétrique and the Clash and the Tonneau – we have so many in there. And once a year we say, let's put them back in the light. Last year, the Tank Chinoise was very well-received. And then we have some re-editions or anniversary celebrations like the Pebble.

These usually sell super well, meaning they are sold right away. These are for the lovers of good shapes. They're also what defines Cartier, in smaller numbers. And for connoisseurs or collectors, whether they want these reeditions or vintage, they can choose either/or.

And then we have the Cartier Libre, where we can do whatever we want – for small numbers again. Some are just exploration. There was even a glove in gold and mesh. We just said: "Let's try that," and to our surprise found a customer. We have done something in the same spirit with a kind of gold cape, like a coat of arms, in gold mesh with some zippers and diamond.

BC: That's extraordinary.

NM: This actually leads me to something else I wanted to talk about, because Cartier of course has much more to it than just watches. Can you describe the importance of watches relative to jewelry in the brand?

CV: Cartier was born as a jeweler and got interested in many different kinds of objects, and it went quite quickly to the watches – in rather small numbers. And it came to watches from the design, meaning for a long period of time was not producing any movement. We were buying movements from Jaeger-LeCoultre or from Rolex or from Audemars Piguet. Many different people. And since the relaunch of the brand in the 1970s, the two categories went together.

So today, I think Cartier is a jeweler and a watchmaker. They are not equivalent in terms of sales – but in terms of what the brand is about, I think they have equal importance.

BC: And now one of the largest watchmakers, in fact.

CV: We are the number two watchmaker. There's another one with a crown –

BC: I've heard of them.

CV: – but second to them. And so, from a maison which was not born in watchmaking, it's been remarkable to come to that level.

BC: How has that ascension really taken place? A few years ago, were you in the top five? I mean, it's really been a quick ascension.

CV: Yes and no. I think 30 years ago, it was nowhere. And then I would say 20 years ago, it was the number two. It had grown a lot on this broad design and the Santos, the Panthère and the Baignoire were doing really well. And at some point it lost a little bit of traction, and that's where it became more like number three. So everything we did to revitalize the brand for the past five years paid off to take back this second position.

BC: And how does men's play a role in that?

CV: Men are about 30 to 40 percent of our clientele for watches. Which is very good. Paradoxically, when there was a kind of obsession to try to be like a watchmaker's watchmaker, it was not so credible for men. When I said let's focus more on elegance, then we got them back.

NM: You clearly had a vision to bring Cartier back to at least number two. After that period of growth that you described, what are your ambitions for Cartier as watchmaker now?

CV: Well, to continue to grow. And to grow our share. It's a market of distinctiveness, as we cultivate our territory. There is large room to expand. Especially as now watches express more and more your own identity. Before, your identity was defined by your country of origin, your gender, the way you are perceived. So this was kind of fixed. And 30 years ago, watches were much, much less a kind of personal signifier. You had large sizes, mostly for men, and small sizes for women. This was the case for Rolex for Cartier for TAG Heuer. Basically, 90 percent were like this ­– except for jewelry watches or a few complications.

But more people got latitude to define their identity the way they want. They can be casual, can be formal. You can express yourself. And to a degree, masculinity or femininity for women or for men has become much more open. And then watches have become much more a signifier, which we have seen for the past 20 years.

The scope expanding from super big, super rustic, super sporty, super complicated, and super refined. The industry has become really gendered in many many many categories. Our part is shape, elegance, refinement, sophistication, attention to detail, and a combination of masculine and feminine within – meaning some are genderless. The Tank Must or Tank Louis Cartier does not have a characteristic that that puts it masculine nor feminine. It's just neutral.

NM: It's a very progressive worldview. And something else that strikes me as progressive is your commitment to recycled materials. I think you've said 90 percent of Cartier's gold is recycled.

CV: And the rest is fair mined from a smaller artisanal mine, like one we use in Peru, which is environment friendly and super integrated with the communities locally.

NM: For a company that is a jeweler and that uses so much gold, where do you find all that gold to have 90 percent of it recycled?

CV: We don't use that much gold. This watch and jewelry industry in some ways is very frugal in terms of resources. You know, when we use steel, it's probably less than a half day of production of an average iron or steel manufacturer. It's like one hour of production of the car industry. It's very small. Same for gold. It's a few tons a year, which is not so much. The diamonds which are used by the jewelry industry is 4 percent of total diamonds which are mined.

NM: Where's the other 96 percent going?

CV: They're going to industry. Diamonds are very hard. And so you use them, for instance, for drill heads or other things like this. So when you have an element to cut or to abrase or to polish, most of them are using diamonds.

So, what we use is very frugal. Nevertheless, because we are so visible, we have to be exemplary – and so we go more and more to these traceable certified origins and, as much as possible, recycle.

What is the mantra for sustainability? Reduce, reuse, recycle. Recycle the material we use, and then everything can be reused, repaired, remounted forever because it's not corrupted. It's not oxidized when you use gold and platinum and so forth. These are renewable materials that can last as long as you take good care.

BC: Where does Privé fit into your strategy? You're doing 100 of these new Tank Normales, right? You could presumably sell many more than that.

CV: We could sell five times more.

BC: Exactly. The choice to limit distribution of a watch such as that is purposeful, no doubt. So how do you grow – how do you become the biggest watchmaker in the world?

CV: We will not become the biggest watchmaker because the world has another one which is much, much bigger than us. And we don't have intention to try to compete with them. It's not the ambition.

We have redefined the iconic collection, and for each of these there's an iconic shape that defines it. And each of these will have the ability to be both unique and universal. They can talk to you and they can talk to large numbers of others without everyone feeling offended if you see too many. We see a very large number of Ballon Bleu and our Santos and Panthère, and they continue to grow. And the more we see them, in some ways the more they get popular. So these can grow as much as the market can grow.

But there must be something which is limited. Collectors want something which is rare. If it's a painting, it's one of a kind – so we have pieces which are just one, and then they have the special value of rarity – both very special design and also limited edition, so those who want that can find that. There are those who don't want to have the same thing as everyone else.

NM: You've acknowledged how frustrating it can be for consumers who want product to not be able to get it. And Cartier believes that, to a large extent, if a customer wants your product, it would be more satisfying for them to be able to get it than not to.

CV: If you want a Tank Normale, it might be difficult. But the Tank Normale is not too different from the Tank. Of course for connoisseurs, it's very different – it's a reedition and it's very special – but if you want a Cartier Tank, you can find a Cartier Tank. If you want a Santos, you can find a Santos.

For a brand like Cartier, we have a very diverse style and there must be a degree of availability. If you come to some other brands, you go to the store and you see nothing – nothing, nothing, nothing. That's very frustrating. You want to balance the desire and create a little bit of tension, but not too much frustration.

BC: Speaking of frustration, custom special-order pieces have become more prevalent over the past two years. How is that handled? I mean, what is the official policy for unique pieces?

CV: If someone wants a special edition, we say, "Okay, let's make something slightly different – a different dial or different a bracelet or a different crown." We once made a watch that goes counterclockwise. The numbers run backward and the hands go backward. This collector has a one-of-one edition just for him.

BC: If I want the exact same watch as his, would you make that? Or does each watch have to be different?

CV: Either we would ask him, "Do you mind if we make a number two out of it?" If he says, "I don't mind," then we can make a second one. Or we would make something slightly different with different color dial – another one has to be slightly different.

In one case, we had a customer who wanted a Tonneau with a big twist: It was a watch with a movement that works, but no hands. So you don't know the time. And by looking at it, you can say "I'm not the slave of time. The watch knows; I don't want to know. I want to be in control of my own time." We'll not do another one. But if someone else asks something similar, it can make sense.

NM: In the U.S.A., a lot of people know Mercedes Abramo. She had a big reputation and now has just gotten a promotion. For people who follow the industry, she's one of the most prominent female executives. Can you tell us a little bit about what her new role will be – and then what to expect from Walter's role?

CV: It is difficult to succeed Mercedes – not only as an industry leader, but as a personal character and a humanist. So expect Walter to be different because, of course, he's himself and he's not her – but to continue in the same way. We believe that the U.S. market has a huge potential. It's currently in recession and it will not last. We basically want the market to continue to expand, and probably to double in the coming years.

NM: Your market or the whole market?

CV: Both – the luxury market. You still have a lot of room to grow in the U.S. – we think the U.S. and China will be the two driving forces for luxury. So expanding in different ways and different cities is a really big challenge; that's basically Walter's role. And then for Mercedes, she has to bring also the knowledge of the U.S. to the central teams – to see that part of this culture also spreads around.

BC: Two questions on things you said. First, you view the U.S. as in a recession right now – do you see that in sales?

CV: Not so much in sales. But you know what happened in California recently with Silicon Valley Bank. And also, the tech companies have laid off many people. New York is much quieter now than even when I came in September. Florida is still booming. So it depends on the sector that you're in.

We've seen sales stay very resilient and have had a booming two years – it's not as booming as it was, which doesn't mean it's going to be a very big fall-off. It's holding on quite well. But it's not double-digit growth as we used to see.

BC: The second part of my question would be: How do you see the U.S. market doubling in size in the next few years?

CV: Well, it already did in the past three years.

BC: Your business doubled in size over the past three years in the U.S.? Wow.

CV: And if we see other maisons – like Louis Vuitton and so forth – they have trends here and there, but with the ability of the U.S. economy to generate growth at scale, that's highly possible. It doesn't mean we'll be there quickly and that we don't have hiccups. The past five, 10 years have showed that it's not linear growth. It's up and down. But out of each crisis, things have grown faster.

NM: Can you describe your personal involvement – what you get involved in, what you approve, what you dream up, what you delegate? How are you personally involved in watches these days?

CV: We have a creation committee where everything is approved. I sign all the drawings. I approve them all, one by one.

This interview has been edited and condensed.